Below is our list of twelve medical experts whose opinions on the Coronavirus outbreak contradict the official narratives of the MSM, and the memes so prevalent on social media.
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Dr Sucharit Bhakdi is a specialist in microbiology. He was a professor at the Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and head of the Institute for Medical Microbiology and Hygiene and one of the most cited research scientists in German history.
What he says:
We are afraid that 1 million infections with the new virus will lead to 30 deaths per day over the next 100 days. But we do not realise that 20, 30, 40 or 100 patients positive for normal coronaviruses are already dying every day.
[The government’s anti-COVID19 measures] are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous […] The life expectancy of millions is being shortened. The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people. The consequences on medical care are profound. Already services to patients in need are reduced, operations cancelled, practices empty, hospital personnel dwindling. All this will impact profoundly on our whole society.
All these measures are leading to self-destruction and collective suicide based on nothing but a spook.
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Dr Wolfgang Wodarg is a German physician specialising in Pulmonology, politician and former chairman of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. In 2009 he called for an inquiry into alleged conflicts of interest surrounding the EU response to the Swine Flu pandemic.
What he says:
Politicians are being courted by scientists…scientists who want to be important to get money for their institutions. Scientists who just swim along in the mainstream and want their part of it […] And what is missing right now is a rational way of looking at things.
We should be asking questions like “How did you find out this virus was dangerous?”, “How was it before?”, “Didn’t we have the same thing last year?”, “Is it even something new?”
That’s missing.
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Dr Joel Kettner s professor of Community Health Sciences and Surgery at Manitoba University, former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba province and Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases.
What he says:
I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.
[…]
I worry about the message to the public, about the fear of coming into contact with people, being in the same space as people, shaking their hands, having meetings with people. I worry about many, many consequences related to that.
[…]
In Hubei, in the province of Hubei, where there has been the most cases and deaths by far, the actual number of cases reported is 1 per 1000 people and the actual rate of deaths reported is 1 per 20,000. So maybe that would help to put things into perspective.
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Dr John Ioannidis Professor of Medicine, of Health Research and Policy and of Biomedical Data Science, at Stanford University School of Medicine and a Professor of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. He is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Center, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS).
He is also the editor-in-chief of the European Journal of Clinical Investigation. He was chairman at the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine as well as adjunct professor at Tufts University School of Medicine.
As a physician, scientist and author he has made contributions to evidence-based medicine, epidemiology, data science and clinical research. In addition, he pioneered the field of meta-research. He has shown that much of the published research does not meet good scientific standards of evidence.
What he says:
Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes. As most health systems have limited testing capacity, selection bias may even worsen in the near future.
The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.
[…]
Could the Covid-19 case fatality rate be that low? No, some say, pointing to the high rate in elderly people. However, even some so-called mild or common-cold-type coronaviruses that have been known for decades can have case fatality rates as high as 8% when they infect elderly people in nursing homes.
[…]
If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average.
– “A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data”, Stat News, 17th March 2020
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Dr Yoram Lass is an Israeli physician, politician and former Director General of the Health Ministry. He also worked as Associate Dean of the Tel Aviv University Medical School and during the 1980s presented the science-based television show Tatzpit.
What he says:
Italy is known for its enormous morbidity in respiratory problems, more than three times any other European country. In the US about 40,000 people die in a regular flu season and so far 40-50 people have died of the coronavirus, most of them in a nursing home in Kirkland, Washington.
[…]
In every country, more people die from regular flu compared with those who die from the coronavirus.
[…]
…there is a very good example that we all forget: the swine flu in 2009. That was a virus that reached the world from Mexico and until today there is no vaccination against it. But what? At that time there was no Facebook or there maybe was but it was still in its infancy. The coronavirus, in contrast, is a virus with public relations.
Whoever thinks that governments end viruses is wrong.
– Interview in Globes, March 22nd 2020
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Dr Pietro Vernazza is a Swiss physician specialising Infectious Diseases at the Cantonal Hospital St. Gallen and Professor of Health Policy.
What he says:
We have reliable figures from Italy and a work by epidemiologists, which has been published in the renowned science journal ‹Science›, which examined the spread in China. This makes it clear that around 85 percent of all infections have occurred without anyone noticing the infection. 90 percent of the deceased patients are verifiably over 70 years old, 50 percent over 80 years.
[…]
In Italy, one in ten people diagnosed die, according to the findings of the Science publication, that is statistically one of every 1,000 people infected. Each individual case is tragic, but often – similar to the flu season – it affects people who are at the end of their lives.
[…]
If we close the schools, we will prevent the children from quickly becoming immune.
[…]
We should better integrate the scientific facts into the political decisions.
– Interview in St. Galler Tagblatt, 22nd March 2020
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Frank Ulrich Montgomery is German radiologist, former President of the German Medical Association and Deputy Chairman of the World Medical Association.
What he says:
I’m not a fan of lockdown. Anyone who imposes something like this must also say when and how to pick it up again. Since we have to assume that the virus will be with us for a long time, I wonder when we will return to normal? You can’t keep schools and daycare centers closed until the end of the year. Because it will take at least that long until we have a vaccine. Italy has imposed a lockdown and has the opposite effect. They quickly reached their capacity limits, but did not slow down the virus spread within the lockdown.
– Interview in General Anzeiger, 18th March 2020
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Prof. Hendrik Streeck is a German HIV researcher, epidemiologist and clinical trialist. He is professor of virology, and the director of the Institute of Virology and HIV Research, at Bonn University.
What he says:
The new pathogen is not that dangerous, it is even less dangerous than Sars-1. The special thing is that Sars-CoV-2 replicates in the upper throat area and is therefore much more infectious because the virus jumps from throat to throat, so to speak. But that is also an advantage: Because Sars-1 replicates in the deep lungs, it is not so infectious, but it definitely gets on the lungs, which makes it more dangerous.
[…]
You also have to take into account that the Sars-CoV-2 deaths in Germany were exclusively old people. In Heinsberg, for example, a 78-year-old man with previous illnesses died of heart failure, and that without Sars-2 lung involvement. Since he was infected, he naturally appears in the Covid 19 statistics. But the question is whether he would not have died anyway, even without Sars-2.
– Interview in Frankfurter Allgemeine, 16th March 2020
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Dr Yanis Roussel et. al. – A team of researchers from the Institut Hospitalo-universitaire Méditerranée Infection, Marseille and the Institut de Recherche pour le Développement, Assistance Publique-Hôpitaux de Marseille, conducting a peer-reviewed study on Coronavirus mortality for the government of France under the ‘Investments for the Future’ programme.
What they say:
The problem of SARS-CoV-2 is probably overestimated, as 2.6 million people die of respiratory infections each year compared with less than 4000 deaths for SARS-CoV-2 at the time of writing.
[…]
This study compared the mortality rate of SARS-CoV-2 in OECD countries (1.3%) with the mortality rate of common coronaviruses identified in AP-HM patients (0.8%) from 1 January 2013 to 2 March 2020. Chi-squared test was performed, and the P-value was 0.11 (not significant).
[…]
…it should be noted that systematic studies of other coronaviruses (but not yet for SARS-CoV-2) have found that the percentage of asymptomatic carriers is equal to or even higher than the percentage of symptomatic patients. The same data for SARS-CoV-2 may soon be available, which will further reduce the relative risk associated with this specific pathology.
– “SARS-CoV-2: fear versus data”, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, 19th March 2020
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Dr. David Katz is an American physician and founding director of the Yale University Prevention Research Center
What he says:
I am deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near-total meltdown of normal life — schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned — will be long-lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.
– “Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?”, New York Times 20th March 2020
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Michael T. Osterholm is regents professor and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.
What he says:
Consider the effect of shutting down offices, schools, transportation systems, restaurants, hotels, stores, theaters, concert halls, sporting events and other venues indefinitely and leaving all of their workers unemployed and on the public dole. The likely result would be not just a depression but a complete economic breakdown, with countless permanently lost jobs, long before a vaccine is ready or natural immunity takes hold.
[…]
[T]he best alternative will probably entail letting those at low risk for serious disease continue to work, keep business and manufacturing operating, and “run” society, while at the same time advising higher-risk individuals to protect themselves through physical distancing and ramping up our health-care capacity as aggressively as possible. With this battle plan, we could gradually build up immunity without destroying the financial structure on which our lives are based.
– “Facing covid-19 reality: A national lockdown is no cure”, Washington Post 21st March 2020
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Dr Peter Goetzsche is Professor of Clinical Research Design and Analysis at the University of Copenhagen and founder of the Cochrane Medical Collaboration. He has written several books on corruption in the field of medicine and the power of big pharmaceutical companies.
What he says:
Our main problem is that no one will ever get in trouble for measures that are too draconian. They will only get in trouble if they do too little. So, our politicians and those working with public health do much more than they should do.
No such draconian measures were applied during the 2009 influenza pandemic, and they obviously cannot be applied every winter, which is all year round, as it is always winter somewhere. We cannot close down the whole world permanently.
Should it turn out that the epidemic wanes before long, there will be a queue of people wanting to take credit for this. And we can be damned sure draconian measures will be applied again next time. But remember the joke about tigers. “Why do you blow the horn?” “To keep the tigers away.” “But there are no tigers here.” “There you see!”
– “Corona: an epidemic of mass panic”, blog post on Deadly Medicines 21st March 2020
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Hey all. This article is attracting an enormous number of readers and comments. We welcome all shades of opinion and totally open discussion, but we think we need to make one stipulation as follows –
If you are making a claim of fact, eg ‘hundreds of nurses are dying’, you need to support that with a published source, which you link to and preferably quote.
Posts that assert these types of sweeping ‘facts’ but don’t link to a source may be treated as spam, if the poster is persistent and refuses to offer supporting data.
This doesn’t impact on your right to offer any personal opinions you choose of course.
Fake news, I suppose. Just a minute ago it was 45 and still counting.
‘As if a storm hit’: more than 40 Italian health workers have died since crisis began’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/as-if-a-storm-hit-33-italian-health-workers-have-died-since-crisis-began
This is fear porn – scary headline burying less scary bits of fact it hopes you won’t stay to read.
5,000 health workers infected, 45 deaths is a CFR of o.9%. Exactly in line with the stats for the small numbers of previously healthy people who die of this virus.
And that doesn’t factor in that Italy admits to not distinguishing deaths FROM from deaths WITH.
No more replies to this thread please. But feel free to contribute below.
Actually that IS fake news. Only 11 have died at an approx CFR of 0.2%.
You can find the data on https://www.epicentro.iss.it/
The Guardian is bought. Not reliable or accurate journalism.
Notice the 33 in there? That’s a conveniently recurring number throughout covid news stories everywhere. Dark occult control symbolism there. Look into it for yourselves, but don’t put too much worry or energy towards it. Just notice the lies it accompanies and look for the Truth.
the number 3 is the most esoteric of numeral linguistics
Where have you noticed the number 33 popping up? Just curious bc I know what it means and what it doesn’t. I’m one that knows this is bigger than our government- it’s those who run the world.
33 out of 5000 infected. That is less than 1%, and can we know for sure that because they tested positive for Covid, that non of these peoples died of heart disease or pneumonia or some other cause?
Guardian is part of the MSM and liberal media. Knowing how skewed and biased their reporting is I never look at their website when it appears as a recommendation or web search result when I am looking for something. Out of curiosity I have looked at their website twice and will never give their website anymore traffic.
Here are some resources to improve your selection of news sources that I share when the topic of news and sources comes up. Even though I am conservative I try to stay as close to Center on the left right news scale to avoid hyperbole and other scare tactics. I created a News bookmark folder to save these website links and to save sources that I look at infrequently. https://www.allsides.com/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ and the Media Bias Chart https://www.adfontesmedia.com/
But the site you are looking at is off-guardian. Nothing to do with the Guardian newsite. Please do research into both before offering opinions.
I know exactly what site I am on, I can tell the difference between this site and “The Guardian” news website. My only mistake was I didn’t realize that I forgot to type “The” before Guardian at the beginning of my reply to a previous post by erm who was citing The Guardian for an article. That is why my comment is placed a little more to the left in line with the other people who replied to erm. Unfortunately this website does not use lines connecting replies to bridge the gap over sub-replies like Disqus does for comments on many websites.
Did you take the time to read and actually think about what I said in my comment before making false accusations, “Guardian is part of the MSM and liberal media. Knowing how skewed and biased their reporting is I never look at their website when it appears as a recommendation or web search result when I am looking for something.
(If I were posting this comment on THE Guardian website I would say, “Knowing how skewed and biased the reporting is on this website I never look at this website when it appears as a recommendation…”)
Out of curiosity I have looked at their website twice and will never give their website anymore traffic.” Notice the use of the word “their” and not “this” like I would have typed if I were on THE Guardian website posting this comment. Also I said I would never give “their” website more traffic, I did not say I would never give “this” website more traffic.
It’s been about 20 years since I earned my Journalism degree that I never used after college because I unexpectedly got into a career of Mental Health and Corrections (basically working with combative adults some with criminal histories). There is enough vitriol and anger going around without either of us adding more. Whether it be online or in real life, next time you encounter something you don’t understand, are unsure about or disagree with ask clarifying questions to make sure you understand what a person is saying or what their body language is saying before assuming the worst.
With digital communication like email, texting, online comments etc it can be easy to misinterpret what someone is saying and overreact. This is when it is especially important to make sure you understand what someone is saying. In real life I have a bit of a sarcastic/funny attitude. But I absolutely do not use any sarcasm online or when communicating with someone I don’t know very well. Unfortunately, sarcasm when used for digital communication can be interpreted different ways depending on the mindset or mood of the receiver. Digitally communicated sarcasm can cause a whole lot of unnecessary grief and problems so if in doubt I leave it out.
If you remember nothing else about what I said here please remember this, I’ve learned long ago most people are good and to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. A quote I picked up years ago somewhere online, “Do you have heart or hate? With one inside the other one ain’t.”
You can call other offices, too.
Ecuador changed when the long-term US asset, ‘Lenin’ Moreno succeeded to the Presidency, and commenced reversing ALL Correa’s policies and returning to Uncle Satan’s cabal. Assange should have gone to Russia, or better yet, China, so he’s stuffed.
Unfortunately, this website does not show who a reply is addressed to and can make conversation even more confusing.
Badly informed? Not at all, already into my 6th decade living the broken UK democracy.
Disinfo? Not all, I’m giving my opinion based on what I experience.
When I say “broken democracy” I’m also referring to the whole FPTP electoral system and lack of true representation as is present in just about every other European country. I’m referring to the revolving doors between business and our politicians to such an extent that contemporary government policy is shaped purely to suit corporations and their donors. I could go on and on. Their corporate media then persuade the busy and the brainless that all is wonderful and it will be much worse under Corbyn’s Labour.
Once the boundaries are redrawn the Tories will have an overwhelming majority and as we have recently seen it only takes 84 nutters in the party to get their way entirely. You are the one showing completely naivety in ignoring the Tory calls for deregulation. Once they are in power with a majority and the likes of JRM or BJ in charge, there will be no stopping the evil bastards.
Don’t fool yourself about the UK having greater control and sovereignty post-Brexit. A small country in a large world at the mercy of WTO tariffs will decimate industry and the supply chain in the short term. In the long term it will force us into shockingly one-sided trade deals especially with the US. I believe that’s the intention anyway, the UK will become even more of a vassal state to the US than it is already. The Brexiteers are already masturbating over the thought of joining NAFTA.
I believe that there is a huge number of people who voted to remain who gloat over every fearmongering report which states that the grass will turn pink if we leave the EU and that those people hope that leaving the EU will be a disaster so that they can look down upon those who voted to leave. They want the UK to fail if they don’t get their way. I believe that you are one of those people.
The UK is not going to ‘fail’. It is going to collapse into mass poverty, hyper-exploitation and almost certain civil strife, perhaps war. And Scotland will leave ‘the Union’, and Northern Ireland return to civil war. All going to test your ‘bull(yboy)dog spirit’.
Spot on Mulga
As I mentioned earlier, I completely understand, and indeed agree, with the Brexiters’ concerns about UK sovereignty issues. But the “UK Elite” have been blaming their mismanagement and corruption on the UK upon the EU for at leaat 2 decades. It’s always the fault of the EU. Never the UK govt responsibility.
So let’s look at the EU. Yes, it’s been somewhat dominated in recent years by neoliberals, but it’s fundamentally social democratic in its origins and spirit. It needs reforming, but less so than the broken UK “democracy”.
The EU, a market of 550 million humans has been the biggest and most successful human achievement in recorded history, It’s been underpinned by centuries of progress.
The US see it as a major competitor and want, even need, to bring it down, hence Brexit on the western front and the Polish-US neoliberal nutters on the eastern front; a classic pincer movement. Divide and conquer.
As I said, lots of issues with the EU, but FAR bettter for the UK to stay in and working to improve it rather than being on the outside trying to bring it down.
The average EU worker is massively better off within the EU than without it. Any doubters need to spend a year or two in the EU and you will understand.
I think N Irelsnd, in the circumstances you describe, would be delighted to Vote for reunification. No need for a civil war – although no doubt some extremists will cause trouble in their death throes.
There was no civil war in n.ireland. What we had was a counter attack by the Brit state, led by its proxy death squads, against those of whom wanted an end to British rule over Irish people. Just saying.
The Remoaners are going to blame everything that goes wrong in the country for the next 20 years on Brexit. Every firm that goes bust, every little thing, down to the weather.
If the recourse to blame were identified as an invalid distortion and block to genuine communication and redacted from the record, there would be little said here on ‘brexit’ or indeed most subjects.
Regulatory capture is the use of law – including contractual agreements upon and between legally defined entities, as a weapon against those who are then left without a voice. They are overruled or ruled out.
Mind capture is the setting of narratives by which people are induced to ‘love’ their slavery and hate and fear freedom.
Orwell scripted 1984 as a picture of the herded and managed mind.
(He wanted to entitle the book 1948).
False hope – or rather mis-directed hopes – play into imagined escape from un faced and un-owned fears that are then easily flagged to outside events, agencies or evils that once reacted to as real, engage an investment of self in the narrative.
Assertive opinion then operates a mindless reaction as seeded and farmed by the management class – who are no less managed – but in versions of the script that incentivise a similar identity investment in an ‘us’ allied in common opposition to a ‘them’.
The population at large has been identified as ‘the enemy’ by those who exploit and predate upon their fellow humans in some belief it is their right and duty to do so. The ‘management’ may have internal divisions as to the manner and division of the ‘mind-share’ of jurisdiction, but not with regard to their investment of allegiance to the idea of domination as possession or control over feared, hated or disregarded others.
The consolidation of management as an essentially faceless bureaucratic technocracy, is of the dominion operating from the capture of wealth, by which to capture Law, Media services, Education, Scientific and Medical Institutions, and any other vector of influence – whilst generating overarching ‘global’ initiatives apparently for unifying protection against war, hunger, disease and catastrophe (man made or otherwise) supposedly as experts in their field who enact private agenda in the drafting of ‘guidelines’ that are weighted using the undue influences listed, with ‘incentives’ that escalate to become ‘an offer you cant refuse’.
The Mafia is organised crime. Its term goes beyond any particular organisation, society, corporate or political or other interest, to birds of a feather that flock together, because they all see the world the same and think and speak the same language. However, the power consolidates or is aligned to the ability to set the narrative in which everyone else then ‘thinks’. A society of ‘incentivised’ order is thus posited as a ‘freedom, power or protection’ that the acceptance of always delivers a dependency of captive, powerless vulnerability.
Enter the ‘matrix’ as the ‘thought adjustment’ of asserted and defended identity investment.
The Emperor is naked – yet the ‘cunning tailors’ have dressed you in your own illusion – defended as very ‘self’ by the betrayal and sacrifice of love to its survival. Of course not owned as such – but the self-hate cannot but leak out as a quickness to blame-hate and likewise invalidate.
International, inter- personal or intra-personal co-operation is the idea of communication, not coercion.
While possession operates ‘9/10th of the law’ in terms of established momentum, it operates the ruling and regulating OF communication by the appearance of ‘giving’ or enforcing rights and regulations of a narrative agenda masked in ‘scientific consensus’ from which a lay person is excluded a voice.
When you’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all. But while we want to be reinforced in our personal identity investment of hopes and fears, we will NOT see but will take the baited hook and run the scripted result as intended under belief our cause is just and our enemy justifies our reaction.
Either the choice for slavery is recognized and relinquished, or it demands further sacrifice. Because fear-induced appetite is never satisfied or allayed by appeasement.
“To those who have, more shall be given, but t those who have not, more shall be taken – even the little that they have”. The decision to to have and live from having being instead of living from a lack that seeks to cover or inflate itself.
NOT living our self-responsibility invites or even demands indeed others, take over along with other ideas of self-justifying definition. True nakedness to being is no shame – who tells us we are ‘shame-naked’ but the voice for blame?
You need to do some reading about WTO terms of trading and they you might wake up to the reality of the massive harm that will be caused to the UK economy if we crash out of the EU without a deal.
You may also get to learn that we cannot trade on WTO terms after leaving unless we negotiate and agree tariffs with more than 150 other WTO members, many of them not friendly towards the UK’s interests.
You think negotiating with 27 friendly neighbours is difficult, just wait until we try with 5-6 times that number scattered around the globe with different interests to ours, even hostile towards us. Time to wake up.
Very few European countries operate zero hour contracts, the working time directive gives everybody who is covered by it 28 days holidays , the agency workers directive was rejected by the UK fascists, most of the utilities in Europe are state owned which we gladly pay them to run ours, most of the transport in Europe is nationalised, and again run ours, why do you think the French workers are on strike now? to preserve the social model they have, and wish to preserve it, unlike here they would rather go and watch millionaires kicking a ball around sat/ sun. and couldn’t care less.rented accommodation in Europe very heavily controlled , over here? free for all. Eurostar made four hundred million, a nationalised company, what happened ,sold to the French, no I’ll take the Europe model every time over these zealot bastards.
@whatismyname, while I agree that The Guardian conveys some liberal themes, I don’t see them as liberal per se. If they are, then where are their calls for Socialism or Communism? Spouting various themes that make liberal people gravitate towards them doesn’t make them liberal. After all, they are owned by The Scott Trust. People involved in tax havens, money laundering and HSBC. In what situation would people like this want their wealth taken away or wealth redistribution?
Only 5 dead cases in this article , 2 of them suicided, noone confirmed died from covid19. What kind of news are this?
These “experts” offer platitudes and little relevant data and no annotation, but Admin1 requires that readers offer proof of their comments. The discussion of the mortality rate is important , but the key issue is the hospitalization rate which the “experts” offer no solution for.
No one is saying unsourced posts are going to be routinely removed, but we are warning that they could be if requests to substantiate are persistently ignored. No one is in a position to bring their credentials to the table BTL, and I think these measures are fair under the circumstances.
OK I just spent 5 minutes at UrbanDictionary and AcronymFinder, and I still have no idea what Admin2 means by “BTL”. ???
‘Below the Line’. Comments not editorial content.
I found it in about 30 seconds. It’s right there, all over the web. I saw it in last week on another thread here, ATL and then BTL and had never seen it in US so I searched and found: “Above The Line and Below The Line.”
Which web are you using? The non-sticky kind?
(I still don’t have a crystal clear sense of the meaning, but am arriving contextually, since Yanks are perrenially below the line, divided as we are “by a common language.”
We seem to be below THAT line, lol.)
Amazing how internationally prestigious and academically discerning institutions all hired these “experts’ to fill important, long term and productive positions, while your laser intelligence sees right through their “platitudes” and lack of data.
Amazing how these prestigious institutions of yours predicted 2 million deaths in the UK, then 1 million, then 500K, then 200K and now 2oK – Imperial College Of London who triggered the panic and lock-down with their report. https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
Or maybe The WHO and EU who demanded borders stay open and travel unrestricted all the way through February and coronavirus infected not be stigmatised.
Also the WHO said the mortality rate would run at 4% yet we know it is less than 1% when more widespread testing takes place and that figure is likely much lower still when we take account of how many people will have had the virus and remain healthy and untested including millions of children and that just 12% of CV-19 deaths in Italy actually list coronavirus as cause of death and where the average age is around 80 and where the majority of deaths were of people who had at least 2 other chronic diseases.
People like you are incapable of critical thought, you are mere drones regurgitating the mainstream narrative even where that narrative has already been debunked by reality.
You are a clear and present danger to free society and the nation state.
Post above is responding to OP not Philip, apologies.
Whew! Thanks!
Mainstream narrative? Me? I was responding to someone above named Janck who was scoffing at the people who’s views are represented on this page (which I fully support) and called them “experts” in quotations. That person accused them of spewing “platitudes” and my response was directed at him. I don’t know why my comment ended up on it’s own and not in Janck’s thread, but you have completely misunderstood that and vented your anger in the wrong place.
Death from driving far riskier for those under 55 than death from COVID.
Way riskier. Maybe we should block off and quarantine all the freeways (of the planet) until we’ve flattened the curve of motorist deaths.
Once the curve has been flattened to near null, or nil, we can all start driving again. It will be SO much safer, see.
Oh, but then there’s the sidestreets. We’ll have to close them until the curve is flattened for vehicular accidents there, too.
(I’m sitting in my car, Saturday, the boardwalk in Newport Beach CA. has just been closed for the weekend, which has never happened before, since the year it was built, long before I was born. Again, temporary, with sandwich board signs, “Now is not the time for tourism.” A dissident and thankless concept, since the whole town markets mostly tourism.)
And when the curve is flattened for the virus, if ever, will it persist?
Unaddressed question.
Your remarks about flattening the curve of motorist deaths reveal your misunderstanding of what that means. Motorist deaths (or otherwise, the accidents which lead to them) do not increase exponentially, as if one accident would engender two more, etc. It is the rate of new infections which must be slowed, so that the number of people getting sick all at once does not overwhelm our health care system. Even at a low death rate, when thousands are sick at the same time, people die because there is no hospital room for them, etc.
Really? No Scheiss Sherlock. With all due respect, I can’t believe how, ah, dense a non-comparison of a comparison that is. Are you feeling all right? Maybe you should check into a hospital or something. Go flatten that curve.
Or if that doesn’t add up as arithmetic, do it “inversely”.
Or just socially distance this.
In any event, you obviously have never driven the 405 in LA. All havoc there is clearly exponential. See?
BESIDES, AS MANY EXPERTS HERE HAVE POINTED OUT, A HELLUVA LOT OF PEOPLE GOT SICK ALL AT ONCE WITH THE 2009 PANDEMIC, AND MEDIA DIDN’T WHINE ABOUT OVERWHELMING.
I for one am underwhelmed. But maybe that’s just me.
See ya, I am going to go flatten a few curves, if nobody else will.
Excellent comment. Govt (in Aust) make it clear self-isolation/lockdown are about not overwhelming our hospital system & resources, NOT deaths. To say nothing of our overwhelming our hard working, highly skilled Medical staff…. And yes, more deaths will occur if our health system is overloaded…. it’s really quite simple, as you have written so clearly.
If this is overloading any health system, it is a more a sign of the poor quality and insufficiency of that system than of a system overwhealmed by some great enemy. Doctors make too many mistakes to be given this sort of power or discretion over all people!
Kristoffer, I agree, particularly where the UK NHS is concerned
Clearly we are talking about 2 completely different curves!
As Dirty Harry once said “do you feel lucky?” would you take a viral load of COVID19 voluntarily?
Yes actually was considering signing up to test vaccines you are then after a few weeks exposed to the virus. Seeing as there is a pretty high chance they won’t work you are basically just exposing yourself to the virus. Only reason I didn’t was the trial was oversubscribed so they didn’t need more guinea pigs, sadly because it was really good money.
Risk of death from dying is higher for those over 55 than from covid as well.
What are you talking about?! Each of these doctors have plied their credentials and even sited the communication, with OH MY gawd! Yes! the Washington Times!! As well as their being peer reviewed authors in medical journals. What, you want their pound of flesh as well??!!
The experts you refer to are putting their reputation on the line – why do you speak of them that way?
*Israeli virologist urges world leaders to calm public, slams ‘unnecessary panic’ *
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-virologist-urges-world-leaders-to-calm-public-slams-unnecessary-panic/
This article is a collection of Statements which use many non-referenced figures and facts, and somewhat resembles the social media sound bytes it seems to be trying to challenge.
These are concise presentations by actual epidemiologists, scientists, and doctors, as a response to and opposed to hysterical crisis ‘reporting’ by news presenters and many in governments. There are another 10 opinions in another article on this site.
If you wish to delve into the thousands of pages of statistics there’s plenty of that available.
Anybody who knows what they’re talking about is saying the same thing, and they are puzzled and concerned about what is going on, and the reason for creating this unprecedented mania and panic.
What?
Says the same as who?
The sources to the quotes are in there, I gues one can do their own research, or just watch CNN
Stefano Montanari in Italy says the same.
I’m a registered nurse is the ER. Only 3 positive and no death. Its an agenda to collapse our economy. Destroy what is left of the middle class. Fear mongering is working.
Hi Sherryann, Offg would be really interested to talk further with you, we would be very grateful if you could drop us an email. Thanks for your post. Admin2
[email protected]
Supporting viewers of the news will tell you the world won’t be informed without them, but the thing is, the real issue is media itself. Most people will tell you that media is something that can motivate people. What they fail to point out is that the media has become a stepping stone of deceit, if you know what I mean. All these supposed “deadly crises” are exaggerated for the purpose of fraudulent profit when everyone loses their freedoms.
Is it possible that the Abrahamic churches have more influence (and not in a good way, at that) on politics despite having little power?
Dr Velo Markovski – http://scholar.ugd.edu.mk/velomarkovski/home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAkt7rVNDZQ
Dr Srećko Sladoljev- https://www.facebook.com/pg/SreckoSladoljev/about/?ref=page_internal
Unfortunately, no english CC but these experts say practicaly the same as Wolfgan Wodarg
If 3000 people die in a year from a virus that is a stastic …If 3000 die in a week that is a problem..A BIG PROBLEM
I totally understand the logic o f the dozen experts. They are all in the age bracket loved by this virus, they all have resources to isolate themselves from the contaminating environment for a limited period of time. The best for them is that the world go through as quickly as possible, die who may die, the rest get herd immunisation, then they can safely get out of hiding. Do not close the schools, do not stop working! Has any of those ‘experts’ volunteered to do shifts in hospitals? Lip service, that-s all they can offer!
And they may be worried about their pension funds, if they outlive the pandemic.
Here my list of names of German Doctors, who have expressed their non PC opinions about the Corona Virus hype on YouTube:
Prof. Dr. Stefan Hockertz, Immuntoxikologe der UniKlinik Hamburg
Dr. med. Spitzbart
Prof. Dr. Carsten Scheller, Professor für Virologie an der Universität Würzburg.
Dr. med. Claus Köhnlein [DFP 69]
Prof. Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi
Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg
Wolfgang Graninger, ehem. Leiter Tropenmedizin & Infektologie AKH
Very good website: Swiss medical doctor (Daily updates)
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
http://https//www.statnews.com/2020/03/26/covid-19-tracker/
Here is a site that gathers data and provides useful graphs
I do agree! I am a former scientist and medical professional (for the past decade working as holistic therapist) I am not famous and I have no public appearance or reputation. But with my background and knowledge I can only agree with these experts. I was delighted to find these experts statements finally being spread more! Just this morning I wrote a blog on my website https://innerspirithealing.wordpress.com/2020/03/30/corona-pan-ic-demia-just-wondering/
Iranian doctor Mansoureh Tajik has many interesting things to say, and is highly critical of “social diatancing”.
https://thesaker.is/covid-an-infectious-disease-and-a-phantom-pandemic/
The head of the WHO is a war criminal, communist rebel, and not a doctor. A strange one to be running the world right now. Look it up!!
From Tx…The numbers simply do not warrant a shutdown. it’s a virus, if you get sick stay home.. this isn’t some “Magical Death virus”. 99% of people who get infected will have minor discomfort, develop a Natural Immunity to the strain. Tx population : 29,087,070 People infected 0.009% (2792 ) People dead 0.0001% (37) Meanwhile over 40 million people have been infected with influenzia , 26 million went to the hospital, 700,000 hospitalized, and 60,000 deaths. and not a single peep from the media. They are using Fear/Scare tactics to destroy the economy and your Rights… If there were Ever a time to turn off the Fake News and do your Own Homework, it is Now.. Don’t Panic,or Fear… Arm yourselves with Knowledge. Many Governors,Mayors etc are being led like Sheep because they Don’t Know anything but what the Media is saying, and They are Lying (the Media)… Be safe,Stay Clean, Be Prudent but Not Blind. Here’s the actual Data : https://corona.help/country/united-states/state/texas
Why don’t you guys just be straight? In order to stop our hospitals being overwhelmed we just need to let the people over 65 die at home instead of trying to save them.
bob: I’m gathering you’re not over 65. Dying alone at home, terrified and in pain. What a wonderful world.
Or was that just sarcasm on your behalf?
If we didn’t take the actions we did guess what will happen? It will spread, it will infect old people and they will die. So either we don’t lock down and save the economy while filling our hospitals with high risk and old people and most just die anyway or we lock down, slow the virus, lower the number of patients coming in at once.
Another thing just look at how many people under the age of 65 have underlying medical conditions that would count as high risk. It would be a massacre if we did nothing.
Scientist Stefano Montanari says the same
Yikes, “experts” spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories, this is genuinely terrifying.
What Osterholm is saying is currently the Dutch handling of things. We are not closing everything down but the call for a lockdown is getting louder since more people know someone who died. I hope we will continue this way. And that people take their personal responsibility.
I have my own small business and life is stressful because I have about 30% of my normal income.
My outlet is working out intensely. The health effects of no income and not being able to get outdoors would be severe.
Social distancing is one thing. Locking down everything is just crazy.
Osterholm said this btw. (so you don’t have to scroll up)
A couple of points here, the lockdowns etc are because the west was totally unprepared (having been warned for decades) and reacted too late with possibly too little (USA).
S Korea made a very rapid effort to do massive testing and isolation of positive cases. They have not had to shut down the whole country. Their infection numbers are much lower and their healthcare systems have not been unduly overloaded.
So testing and isolation do work, they just have to be done on a massive scale.
I think it is clear that left to it’s own devices COVID19 would cause a high death toll and because of the way exponential curves work, the majority of cases arrive in the few days before the peak. This alone causes system failure.
Don’t forget, COVID19 is new to the human respiratory tract and thus a much higher % of people with less than ideal immune systems will succumb in some way, possibly fatally.
None of this is pointed out by any of those contributors.
Imagine say 40 million infected in UK. Infection doubles every 2/3 days. So it takes about a week to go from 5 million to 40 million, if only a small % require hospitalisation, that is still a huge number and that is why the systems will fail.
Spot on!
Rob – the actual stats don’t support some of your assertions I’m afraid. Covid 19 is in fact, the symptoms and disease of SARS Covid-2. CV-19 is not a strong virus or one with a high kill rate – far lower in fact than flu. Most people are asympmtomatic and most people who contract it display minor or mild symptoms only. It is the frail elderly and those with 2 or more underlying long term serious and chronic health conditions that get affected by it.
Yes the COVID-19 virus doesn’t kill as much as say influenza or other things but that’s not the point. The point is this virus spreads quicker and imagine the strain on the already strained system. Have you ever gone to hospital and it’s quiet? Always wait times in a&e, not enough beds in some wards or enough staff and many, many other problems. The system struggles on a good year, now throw in a new virus. What do you think would happen if we just left it? Didn’t go on lockdown? People who would need help wouldn’t be able to get it, if it was to do with the virus or not which causes a high death rate, maybe not solely from COVID-19 but in effect the virus has on the nhs and all the other hospital systems in the world.
Adam, the bed situation in the NHS is because for years now, they have been systematically reducing bed numbers to the extent that we are now second from the bottom in the world for the number of NHS beds per capita population. We have the lowest number of doctors and nurses at the frontline in the whole developed world. In the meantime, the tiers of managers and administrators has grown exponentially to the extent that I think it is now fair to say there are more managers and administrators than beds, doctors and nurses. Editor of the Independent questioned the Orange Buffoon and the Chief of the NHS on this – and neither could refute the evidence – mumbling something like they would put more on the frontline in the next 5-10 years. Remember this, it was only in December that the NHS said they were overburdened to a critical extent because of winter illnesses, they say this every single year – yet they do nothing year on year to make contingency plans for this. Do you think, really think, that the CV-19 is having any greater impact on the NHS than any average year, absolutely not. Do you think that the £40m pounds given my May in December 2018 to ease the so called ‘winter crisis’ went in creating more beds, more doctor more nursing posts? Hell no, it didn’t. Guess what though, it was spent on creating more bean counters, more managers and more administrators. Set CV-19 aside for a moment, week on week, month on month, year on year the NHS always grab the headlines and appear to be perpetually in crisis yet do nothing about it. They never make any managerial or administrative redundancies and Lord knows, at least 60% of them could be axed and wouldn’t be missed. The truth is they don’t know what they do with the £140bn worth of public money they get a year. Don’t forget, the Blair Government allocated hundreds of millions of pounds in the Modernisation Agenda which was allocated to introduce modern treatment and equipment in line with Europe, put more Doctors, consultants, nurses and GPs on the front line and improve early diagnosis and treatment. In addition to which, they also £300m of public money to bring outcomes for stomach, pancreatic and liver cancer in line with Europe, who have a huge success rate compared to us. Five years later, a senior spokesman for the NHS, interviewed on Radio 4 when asked to demonstrate the extra number of patients who were treated and diagnosed early, what new treatment had been adopted from Europe and the world that had proven to be successful and what new and highly effective new equipment had been purchased to achieve the desired outcomes, it became apparent that not a penny of that money had been spent on what it was allocated for. Not one extra patient had been diagnosed and treated, not one piece of new specialist equipment had been purchased, there was no improvement in outcomes and so on and so forth. Where did the money go – just as with the Modernisation Agenda money, it went on giving Consultants massive, and I mean massive, pay rises, technicians such as OTs and Physios were given massive regradings and massive pay rises, tiers and tiers of new managers were created and so on and so forth. So, when you talk about the CV-19 overwhelming the NHS – it is not and will not because every year, every month, every day, they are always bleating on about how treating x, y z or any condition is costing them billions of pounds of public money. Thing is, they don’t have any proper financial accountability systems so they haven’t got a clue where there money is spent, they haven’t even got a clue about how many people they treat for what diseases. Less sympathy please and more facts. CV-19 is just another headline the NHS can grab for an unashamed increase in their funding which will go nowhere other than on themselves and not the patients. I didn’t applaud our so called NHS heroes – the front line medical staff are treated like shit by the Managers and are not respected. I reserve my respect for them and their dedication not for the rest of the NHS.
First, I wanna say that it’s cool that we can ‘thumb up or down’ the comments.
I should have stopped reading after reading this- “Below is our list of twelve medical experts whose opinions on the Coronavirus outbreak contradict the official narratives of the MSM, and the memes so prevalent on social media.”
How can you have a counterpoint when you haven’t established a ‘point?’ Define the “official narrative(s) of …… wait, wait, ……. Define who/what is ‘Main Stream Media’ first. For example, if MSM is, media one doesn’t agree with, that’s too arbitrary to have any meaning. And then, what ‘so prevalent memes?’ (I don’t know if you are aware of this, but memes don’t really stand for much of anything.) Then, getting back to “official narratives,” is there really a consensus that no one told me about? Putting this article through the shredder and then filing under ‘Propaganda.’ Your premise is all too vague, along with the responses of the ‘experts.’
Let the thumbing begin.
‘I should have stopped reading…’
So you didn’t, presumably?
What did you think of the actual opinions of the quoted medical experts? Did you find them interesting and provocative, and in contrast to the opinions you are hearing on most of the Broadacst TV stations, or broadly in line with those TV opinions?
I found the opinions quite misguided and not appraising all the facts known about COVID19. Read my comment here.
George –
Could there be a balanced version of the truth between what experts are saying and what media is reporting? Should media drive the message? Probably not.
When you have a question about the mechanics of your automobile, do you consult the local newspaper reporters? Or perhaps you call the local television news station? It seems more logical to consult an auto mechanic … possibly one w/certifications.
BTW, I realize the absurdity of this analogy. However, it is my opinion we should be listening to experts … period. Unfortunately, their messages (just like it is with most messengers) are filtered by media. And media, mostly, delivers what SELLS.
Just my thoughts.
Thank you –
John
https://www.davidicke.com/article/565901/cough-19-not-virus-rather-5g-ge-electronic-battle-soul-forever-ever
I recommend this article by Franz Josef Allmayer (first link in english, second one in spanish). Another perspective not at all in line with what mainstream media is telling us:
https://medium.com/@franzallmayer_96499/we-are-in-the-uncharted-of-a-world-becoming-new-b335b5fc0a92
https://plazapublica.com.gt/content/una-oportunidad-en-el-caos-del-covid19
Is there also a Chinese translation?